Is it better to disassociate oneself as one of JWs or wait for due process and be disfellowshipped?
The Berean
JoinedPosts by The Berean
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10
Here's One ....
by The Berean inis it better to disassociate oneself as one of jws or wait for due process and be disfellowshipped?.
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37
Why is JEHOVAH so cruel?
by african GB Member inhow can he be so intolerant to "imperfect humans"?.
why does he only love jw's, even though he "created" everyone (well thats according to jw's)?.
does it make sense that he keeps "creating" people( giving birth) while he knows they stand a 50% chance of getting destroyed at armageddon?.
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The Berean
african GB Member:
From Another Direction
I too have wondered about God's cruelty. Why reportedly when he had trouble in heaven with a spiritual son did he cast him down to earth and tell uninvolved flesh and blood: "I can't do anything with him, you straighten him out"? Then supposedly God went on to warn mankind that if they could not conquer this invisible demon and succumbed to sin ... they would have failed to prove to the entire universe their worth and would turn to dust within seventy or eighty years... even though the spirit trouble-maker would be allowed to float about for thousands of years! WEW!
The only thought I came up with is that if i would have not been born and lived lo these 60+ years where would i have been? In a dark hole soomewhere?
So, in my case, even if God is cruel, I was here for a while and had a shot ... which beats the alternative ... and for that I am thankful.
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7
Scandal Anyone
by The Berean indoes anyone else feel, as i, that the new york based bethel family is simply a microcosm of society as a whole and has just a much crime and corruption within as anywhere else on main street?.
if so, how are they able to suppress evidence and incriminating evidence?
is there a vow of silence?.
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The Berean
Interesting thoughts leavingwt.
My question goes as to why does there seems to be a lack o eye-witness testimony regarding sin in the tabernacle. If there is no sin in New York could some not conclude that The WBTS IS the only "righteous" organization on earth? I suspect that those who actually know something are still too intimidated to talk.
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39
MEMORIAL SHOCK!!!!
by african GB Member inlast year in my cong (well it's not really "my cong" as i'm just "in" for the sake of family) we had a new "partaker of the emblems".
it came as a shock because this man was only baptized in 2005.. his wife has been a dub from birth.. he was 63 when he got baptized, took "auxilliary" pioneer after 1 month...became a full-time pioneer after a year....became ms after 2years...made an elder 6 months later.....2008 he got "anointed"....we were all surprised at the amount of time he took to climb the jw corporate ladder....rumours are that he donated a car to our po when he (po) lost his job, and some other favours( this man is wealthy).... .
i'm looking forward to be "just an observer" at this year's memorial in my cong (i am thinking of partaking myself, but i sure would rather not,the "bread" is tasteless and the wine is of poor quality,...i don't wanna throw out at the ms serving the emblems)..... back to that man,...how long would it take him to become a gb member?.
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The Berean
Give the old man some credit!
Where else on earth can a worthless, burnt out no count get a second chance?
By partaking at Memorial the R&F with suddenly think that their road to everlasting life depends upon making this "Johnny Come Lately" happy.
After being ignored for years, suddenly the "sheep' will await his trembling word with anticipation and praise his wisdom. If he needs food, transportation, money, attention, ANYTHING! The faithful will believe that they have done it for Jesus and "the least of these, my Brothers."
Being of the annointed, therefore, is a lucerative occupatrion. Just look at all the unseen "slaves" in New York who recieve benefits ranging from monthly Congregation tithing (yes, I said tithing) to funds from entire estates simply for professing a heavenly calling and hiding behind the curtain.
My suggestion to anyone still in the group is to take the emblems and watch how people will begin to "slave" for you! That old man probably knows what he is doing. He has turned the tables!
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7
Scandal Anyone
by The Berean indoes anyone else feel, as i, that the new york based bethel family is simply a microcosm of society as a whole and has just a much crime and corruption within as anywhere else on main street?.
if so, how are they able to suppress evidence and incriminating evidence?
is there a vow of silence?.
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The Berean
Does anyone else feel, as I, that the New York based Bethel family is simply a microcosm of society as a whole and has just a much crime and corruption within as anywhere else on Main Street?
If so, how are they able to suppress evidence and incriminating evidence? Is there a vow of silence?
Some of you out there MUST know something otherwise the "slave class" really is supernatural.
Can anyone courageously spill some beans and help topple this outfit? We are only one scandal away!
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If I Were Satan ...
by The Berean inif i were satan, would i appear at times square in a black cloak wielding a pitchfiork while demanding worship?
after 9/11 how well would that work?.
if i were satan wishing to build an earthly oragnization would i appear in a cold cloud of ectoplasm or burst forth from a young child's chest in alien fashion?
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The Berean
If I were Satan, would I appear at Times Square in a black cloak wielding a pitchfiork while demanding worship? After 9/11 how well would that work?
If I were Satan wishing to build an earthly oragnization would I appear in a cold cloud of ectoplasm or burst forth from a young child's chest in Alien fashion? Would that fill a building with eager members?
If I were Satan, would I climb into a bottle of pills or a bottle of booze with hopes of causing an early death for my victime? Is killing my potential followers a good long-term business strategy?
If I were Satan, would I climb through the internet with such obvious approaches as kiddie-porn with hopes of prosecuting and incarcerating my followers? Who would listen to a group of inmates offering but a similar fate for following me.
No, if I were Satan, I would suck people up in a whirlwind of confusion, throw a sacred cow in the mix, focus on human shortcomings, and cry out: "All will be well in Oz. Follow me! Stay on the Yellow Brick Road and all your needs will be realized! Seek only the Wizard behind the curtain! Tell others to follow you! Watch out for bad witches! Danger is everywhere! By doing so Dorothy, I will restore you to the land of your youth!
The writer of the Wizard of Oz, L Frank Baum as well as the founder of The WTBTS, Charles T Russell were both born in the 1850s and both died in the 19teens. They were contemporaries. Do you suppose they compared notes?
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18
If you no longer believe why do you still go?
by Quirky1 injust a question i have to throw out.
i'm curious to say the least.
when i could no longer believe the bs i made up my damn mind and left and have yet to return.
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The Berean
To Quirky1 and others:
Your question may be the most important one I have read on this site.
Many people who believe they are former JWs still carry the addiction. I too attend meetings periodically. I believe I am still sick.
A couple of weeks ago I ate dinner with a young lady who claims her childhood was stolen by the "cult" and she no longer believes. I asked her if she might be interested in forming a recovery group for former JWs. She told me that such an endeavor would never take off since most former members believe they have alread disconnected. She then began, perhaps unknowingly, distancing herself from me across the table ... defending the organization and even stating at meals end that she might return someday! This is more typical than most of us realize!!!
In my opinon, the organization is an acquired addiction and fills the same need for many as booze, chemicals, food, or sex. What's worse, even among mental health profesionals religious trauma is not considered a long term disease. I suggest that it is. It may be likened to malaria, which comes and goes in season. Surely,we all know former JWs who over time returned to the fold or come and go ... So why?
Because many do not escape an environment that continually beckons "come on, take a dose. it's for your own good." It is important for Witnesses attempting to weane themselves to know that those not taken under the "spell" of this potion cannot understand the severity of the complications from such a Post Traumatic Syndrome and think we should easily "get over it".
My analogy is this. If we are alcoholics and inocently keep visiting the bar, won't we eventually drink! Everyone seated wants us to embibe with them. AA says that if you spend your free time in a barber shop you wil eventually get a haircut. Our periodic association is hazardous!
Quirky1, have you considered that you may still have coerced respect for those in the group? One thing I have noticed about addicts who are legitimatley in recovery ... they distain those still using.
This may sound strong, yet I hope you will examine yourself, as I have had to, in order to be sure you are not still stuck in the past. As long as we feel guilt, responsibility, anger, or obligation we are being controlled, not by our own free will but rather by the selfish wishes of others. How can one be friends withy those who believe they are better than us? Scripture calls it "slaving for two masters."
I did it for fifty years ... I believe I have insight. May I help anyone?
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49
THE ELDERS JUST KNOCKED ON MY DOOR
by Mary ini was asked what i thought when i saw all the bad things going on in the world and about how close we are to the end.
i replied "jeff, i simply do not believe that it's going to happen in my life time.
" he was momentarily stunned and said "well, when have things ever been this bad before?
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The Berean
Hi Mary
Sharing details of your Elder visit comes to the core of one of the greatest misconception that JWs foster.
While Elders and followers would contend that they are showing unbelievers a form of love by visiting it is actually YOU along with millions of other courteous human beings who show them the Love referred to in Corinthians by "enduring all things." Most of us are well aware of the arrogance that mentally-weak individuals propagate in order to somehow validate their existence thru the use of scripted responses rather the power of reason.
I really respect the calm, matter-of-fact manner in which you handled what often is a tense, gunny-sacked, and angry confrontation of differences.
SALUTE!
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The Berean
Unless the WTS figures out a way to backpeddle and institute cash tithing from their membership they will likely cease to exist within twenty years.
For decades the organization has dergredated those churches who pass the collection plate yet they have been able to coerce their faithful into supporting the headquarters by calling such bilking "needed contributions for the worldwide work" dwarfing the virtue of the Virgin Mary in comparison to the generosity of the poor widow at the well.
Jehovah's Witnesses per member have in the past actually given more of their funds to the church than other groups. It has amounted to a multi-marketing process. Individual publishers may put less in the "contribution box" st the Hall but spend great amounts of money for transportation in their "field service" activity where they recruit new membership. Each time a new one comes to the Kingdom Hall, a little more money finds its way to the Brooklyn New York branch. Therefore, a bit of the money spent to fill the gas tank recycles to the local congregation and upstream to headquarters. It's like the Obama campaign. Lots of little amounts add up to big money!
Several recent events however threaten the liquidity of the organization:
First, literature that was once sold in the public must now be given free to satisfy the legal definition of a "not-for-profit" organization. Printing propaganda now comes at a huge cost. Publishing of certain literature is now being curtailed.
Additionally, the WTS is no longer a legal "sacred cow" with many lawsuits being filed for such torts as "wrongful death" due to instructing members to refuse blood transfusions to fuduciary reponsibilty for child abuse on the part of approved servants and associates. The cost of defending and/or settling these claims is increasing by the millions.
The most important factor comes with the dramatic increase in the cost transportation. JWs are predominantly blue collar in nature with limited funds. They have told that their salvation depends on traveling throughout the world and recruiting new members. Many can no longer afford to drive endless miles to knock on doors to find no one at home or being told that they are not welcome by the householder. With a decreasing sales force and a product with no market a "going out of business sign" is already symbolically hanging on the doors of Brooklyn Bethel as at least six of its buildings have been sold and up to 2000 volunteers have been sent home.
So,. if you are among the angry or disillusioned who might enjoy the WTS's demise, remember the words of founder C.T. Russel who began printing in 1876 with words to the effect that if ever the money ran out, he would interpret that event as God's message that the work was finished. JWs back then may have operated on a shoestring but in our modern economy the "slave" can't work for free.
As it stands, the WTS is in its "last days" and you can take that to the bank!
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The Berean
I'm afraid the problem here goes even further if you accept the WTBTS's explanation on how the Devil came to earth.
Think about it ... God supposedly had rebellion within his initial invisible heavenly family which had nothing to do with earthly children. So, what did this heavenly Father do but to send the evil serpent to the Garden of Eden to bring about pain, sickness, and the eventual death of Adam and Eve and all their offspring thru deception! Furthermore, God must have known that the original couple, made from dirt, would fall into sin since invisible angels of far greater mental intelligence as well as mightiness had already fallen from grace in the spirit realm.
What's interesting, as the plot plays out, is that God allegedly said to mankind: "It's your job by your actions to straighten Satan and his hordes out and prove them liars"! If you fail you will suffer eternal death."
Then in 1914, according to JWs, it got worse! Satan was restricted to the earth to raise havoc during this supposed "time of the end." Double jepoardy ensued with the threat of being found "bloodguilty" for any failing to knock on endless doors with a warning of "tribulation and Armageddon." Such noncompliance would also carry a sentence of death
In summary, God reportedly did what loving parents would never do and that is to blame marital discourse near his "throne" on innocent children resising on the "footstool" and to use them to refute the actions of the estranged mates.
Doesn't this seem like a lot of abuse when God could have handled the matter of infidelity without earthly creatures even being aware of the heavenly divorce?
Perhaps the answer lies in the need to use guilt and fear for a religious organization to control the masses. There must be a better interpretation of human participation in a battle for "universal soverignty."